: EASA.A.059 Issue: 07 Date: 11 October 2012 1. a) Type P.180 b) Variant Avanti 2. Neither ASN nor the Flight Safety Foundation are responsible for the completeness or correctness of this information. The professional pilots at Avantair greatly appreciate our owners support and contribution to our careers and livelihoods. One thats lacking is the single FMS. Along with the wings, the engine inlets and wing leading edge are deiced by bleed air; the tail does without, as do the props, which are heated directly by the engine exhaust blowing over them. Ive removed Kyles email address above since this is not a pilot placement service, and Ive also deleted a charter companys post trolling for business from Avantair customers. We are enhancing our maintenance and operational infrastructure so that it surpasses every standard that applies to the aircraft we fly. In attempting to understand the Piaggio P.180 Avanti II, you need to begin by forgetting everything you thought you knew about turboprop-powered airplanes. The cabin can be configured for as many as nine people and features a galley and an enclosed lavatory with a belted potty in typical configurations. Bill, I appreciate the info and your honest evaluation. I think that it should be obvious to everyone here that comments by Mandarin Jet and a few others should be taken with a grain of salt. Discretion being the better part of valor, I extended the gear early and reduced speed to deploy the flaps, intending to stabilize nice and early so I could concentrate on flying as accurately as possible. Passenger oxygen deploys at 13,000 feet. On Saturday, fractional provider Avantair grounded its entire fleet of about 60 Piaggio Avanti twin turboprops to conduct a comprehensive examination of all maintenance records and aircraft. According to industry sources, the action stemmed from an incident earlier this year in which an Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight. The second records shows a Piaggio P-180 In flight, the Avanti handles much like its competition, but the jet-like takeoff and landing speeds, lack of FADEC, narrow gear track, twitchy electric steering, and grabby carbon brakes combine to make the airplane more of a handful than your run-of-the-mill King Air or Cessna Conquest. Considering the shape of the nose in front of you, this is handy, because the runway stays in easy view the entire time. I got an email at about 10:30 last night saying cancelled for the reasons stated in this email, with the same offer to find me a charter ay my expense. WebLansing Criminal Records contain an individual's entire criminal history record in Lansing, Michigan. In fact, Avantair hired and added airplanes during the Great Recession. The fuselage, wings, tail and forward wing of the airplane are metal, though admittedly metal that has been shaped and smoothed in a way that makes a compound curve look like childs play. Todays airplane has the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite, with all the bells and whistles. Despite the fact that it took me a while to get a feel for the trim button theres a little activate button in the center of the trim hat the hand-flying was nothing short of delightful. Yes, the Captain, a mere mortal and an infallible being, DID miss the elevator on his post flight inspection. Frequent heading changes are required to stay in the area and this allowed me to quickly get a feel for the Avanti. Because of the rake angle of the windshield, the glareshield is very deep and provides a perspective unique to the Avanti. On Saturday, fractional provider Avantair grounded its entire fleet of about 60 Piaggio Avanti twin turboprops to conduct a comprehensive examination of all Be sure to repair any leaky faucets or toilets. But as soon as Lorenzo released the back pressure and added power, the aircraft recovered and we were flying at 140 knots. I followed the start procedure with one eye as I did this and observed Villi checking the power lever at idle, switching on the fuel pump, and setting the start switch to start. At 13 percent Ng, he moved the condition lever to ground idle with the starter switch shut off at 40 percent Ng and the power lever to flight idle. When I did, I asked about why I was paying for it, and was told "Well we usually do, but this time we were instructed otherwise.". The closeness to the ground gives the airplane a go-cart feel. If it's not currently installed, click here to download. The wings are held level easily with aileron and a squeeze of rudder. I had a few seconds to get the feel of the Evo in the landing configuration before I was flaring for touchdown and gradually closing the power levers. It is, instead, a forward wing. Villi selected the Rockwell Collins RTA-800 weather radar on his nav display via the display control panel down the side of the PFD, to monitor a cell just inland. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. The Aviation Safety Network is an exclusive service provided by: The twin-engine airplane departed 23 minutes behind schedule to pick up passengers at an intermediate airport. They have made a challenging job fun and did their best to service our Owners and fellow employees. Both flights continued to their destinations without further incident. The Shape of Fast You need to check your facts pal, they offered voluntary leaves to avoid furlough up until recently a handful of people have been fired for the slightest error in judgement. Don, sorry about your situation and lack of communication. There is no elevator in it; hence, its not a canard. Length / 47 ft 3 in Sounds like they are on life support and being read their last rights. 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Air Force looks toward automation with Reliable Robotics, Boeing, NASA to develop sustainable airliner. They are a public company and having your fleet grounded is a material issue yet they are not disclosing this issue as far as I can tell. That said, they never even sent me a quote, which I got elsewhere for a king air (and a Lear 55, I am taking the King Air). It's because they MUST do it. Flying the Avanti II https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2012-10-23/avantair-grounds-entire-fleet-safety-checks, It was ground the fleet for inspection or get shutdown my the FAA. Once level, we were rewarded with what was nearly the top speed of the P.180, which was consistently 395 knots bumping up to that magical 400-knot figure on a couple of occasions, those figures at around 800 pounds per hour total. While I flew, Villi checked the Airplane Flight Manual and the performance graphs corroborated these figures to within a couple of knots at ISA +5. So as fast as it is at cruise, its block times suffer as a result of the climb speed and relatively low Vmo (260 indicated) and Mmo (Mach 0.70) limitations. I started looking at commercial flights, figuring SWA flies there and it would be inexpensive anyway. Thank you! Using the intuitive FMS CDU, I programmed a route toward BERAB, the initial approach fix for the VOR approach to Runway 27 at Villanova. Ill let Peter Garrison work out both the semantics and aerodynamics of the question (if those two disciplines would differ on the subject). The continuous curve of the fuselage generates approximately one-third of the overall lift, reducing the required size of the wings and thus minimizing drag. Please specify the source for your statement. At 73 inches across, the width allows for great shoulder room, easy entry though the airstair door and a very comfy hard-door lavatory. In a jet this would have resulted in a go-around from 10 miles out. Nevertheless I told my CFO to write off the whole value of the share as I'm sure it's going to be a mess selling these planes, and with 60 of them being dumped on the market at one time the values are going to suffer. Design priorities of speed and efficiency often dont make for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and the P180 reflects this. Your management sucks! http://aerossurance.com/safety-management/guilty-plea-obstructing-ntsb/, Passenger - Non-Scheduled/charter/Air Taxi, Updated [Time, Damage, Category, Investigating agency], Updated [Time, Departure airport, Destination airport, Source, Narrative], Updated [Time, Other fatalities, Departure airport, Destination airport, Source, Narrative], Updated [Other fatalities, Source, Embed code, Narrative]. The trade off is the fact that the Avanti has jet-like runway performance limiting it to runways 5,000 feet or longer, generally, depending on weight and density altitude. Piaggio P.180 AFM TC No. Unfortunately, ill-fated business and maintenance practices eventually led to its bankruptcy in 2013. If this had happened at a big passenger airline, they would have been lauded for getting the aircraft to the runway. The twin turboprop Avanti EVO is the third-generation version of the Piaggios Avanti P.180, a model introduced in the 1990s that led to the creation of Piaggio Aero Industries. It has delivered nearly 200. As it wraps itself around the pointy nose of the P.180, the windshield stretches out for several feet in front of the pilots and wraps back around them tightly. The idea behind the Avanti has always been remarkably simple and completely outside the turboprop box. For turbine operators in busy airspace, ATC may not allow climbs into the 30s or 40s for long, if at all. This airframe, T7-ASG, SN3007 was the first Avanti to be produced at the new manufacturing facility in Villanova DAlbenga, one year after production was moved from Genoa. We know this is an extremely difficult period for our loyal employees and frustrating to our devoted owners, said Mr. Santo. Now I find out this has been an issue for several days but they have not sent out any communications to the owners mentioning this issue, nor is it mentioned on their website. Being a turboprop, however, it uses a fraction of the fuel jets would use. Thanks guys, My last four years have been spent flying equipment with fly-by-wire controls and the Avantis flying controls are conventionally connected via cables, pulleys, push pull rods, and bell cranks. Piaggio can do it, too. Although never anywhere near 40 in the last two weeks have been in service. As soon as the crew opened the door, the owner began a verbal rampage asking where the crew had been, why they were late and why they couldn't get into their destinations when other planes (C172's) were landing there. (Please expect us to be bashed by current Avantiar employees. Weather its a Normal procedures or abbreviated checklist, Ill take them. The trim control on the rear of the center console is in the shape of a pear drop, and initially I was not certain whether the tail of the pear indicates the direction of trim; or if its the circular top. Though the very basic levers dont look as though they have reverse capability, they do, though it requires a healthy lift on the levers to get them back over the gate to provide propeller braking to slow things down on the ramp and taxiways. Now, on to the rumors about the FAA pulling Avantairs certificate. The biggest problem I had was in remembering that I wasnt flying a jet and that mounted 30 feet in back of me, completely out of sight, were two turboprop engines. "Piaggio gets confirmation of Avanti speed records". AINonline. Aviation International News. Archived from the original on 5 September 2018. Retrieved 16 June 2017. ^ Aboulafia, Richard. In ground idle and with power pulled back to idle, the airplane still has a tendency, like many turboprops, to get going too fast, so you need to use beta to keep things slowed down. Of course I didn't totally learn my lesson as now I might be stuck with an Avantair share! While it may be certified to fly with one pilot most P180s are crewed by two. @piaggiodriver, it's ok to be proud of working at a company but avantair treats its employees horribly. An FAA spokeswoman told me that the grounding was not initiated by the agency, so Im not sure where you got this information. The Avanti takes that formula and pushes it to the design edge, achieving that performance with a great deal less power than in comparable jet products and with the best cabin in the class by a long shot. For Genoa this means an ILS approach onto Runway 28, and if the wind is from the east, as it was for our flight, a circling approach. Unlike what I think of as a canard, in the Avanti the elevator is back on the tail and the ailerons are on the trailing edge of the wing, along with some very serious flaps, which are designed to deploy slowly so as not to cause a dramatic pitch change they succeed at that, by the way. WebThe pilot said he was flying the RNAV GPS runway 36 approach in 3 miles visibility and that the wind was from 070 at 9 knots. Any altimeter setting mismatch is shown by a yellow line beneath the altimeter setting on the PFD, and the pressurized cabin is set to climb at 300 fpm. In the process it doesnt hurt one bit that the Avanti II just so happens to be one of the sleekest and most beautiful airplanes ever built. The instrument is a dual-purpose gauge showing both torque and interstage turbine temperature (ITT), Tq shown by a green arrow and ITT by a line. It's been 4-18 at most. A friend owns a I flew a new Avanti II out of Denton, Texas, home of Avanti completions in North America, with Piaggio Americas Grant Spigener. Seats / up to 11 Stay tuned. Height / 13 ft 1 in I know both crews involved in the Flint, MI and the elevator incident. Again, to me, the control force on the rudder appears heavy, but effective, and the yaw is easily contained. I was told my aircraft was on extended maintenance (whatever that meant, now I know). However, lately the service sucks and now this. For years, Avantis languished on the fringes of general aviation as a niche airplane. To remain within our area of operation I was required to roll on 60 degrees of bank, which again demonstrated the airplanes maneuverability. There are ten wholly owned Avanti EVOs in operation worldwide, according to JETNET. At sea level under standard conditions, the Avanti II needs almost exactly the same amount of runway to land as it does to take off, just over 3,200 feet. Hah, you think the owners don't care about safety? With all of these maitenence issues and issues regarding fudging pilot hours so they would be legal is scary. The use of alloys instead of composites was a purposeful choice for Piaggio Aero, which certified the airplane more than 20 years ago at a time when there were few successful composite models and sheet metal seemed to augur a shorter approval program than plastics did. So happy I left this rag tag joint when I did! As a result, the engine management chores on the P.180 are more complicated than those in todays fadec-equipped light jets. #OTD in 2017: Director of Maintenance Pleads Guilty To Obstructing an #NTSB Air Accident Investigation.https://t.co/P84ir4v0L5 #flightsafety #aviationsafety #aviationmaintenance pic.twitter.com/fA2oHltndZ, This information is added by users of ASN. This kind of range makes the P.180 a great bet as a regional airplane or one thats based in the Midwest. If Avantair does not make it through this we could probably partner of a cheap Piaggio. I found a new job about 4 weeks later! The Avanti is has been around since 1990, providing the luxury of a jet with the versatility of a turbo prop. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-07-18/pilot-report-piaggio-avanti-evo, Copyright 2023 AIN Media Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Let me be clear here and confirm that they are just rumors. No furloughs or termination?? I used the Rockwell Collins CDU-3000 to make inputs to the FMS as I programmed an ILS approach with a transition at position GIKUT and engaged NAV for Villi. My trip has been scheduled for several days so I am perplexed on why they waited until 11pm the night before my trip to tell me about this issue. While canard configurations like the Beechcraft Starship were gaining a lot of attention back then, the exotic Avanti begged to be even more different with its three-lifting-surface arrangement versus the canards tail-forward setup. Compared to the Avanti II it has redesigned nacelles, winglets, and a reshaped front wing, leading to a 3% reduction in emissions along with a 3% increase in climb performance. Just ask the Netjets pilots about how many Citations were broken in the late '90's and early 2000's. First, with a far aft wing the engines two Pratt & Whitney PT6s in a pusher configuration can be mounted very far aft as well, which helps keep the interior noise low. Pete Bedell is a pilot for a major airline and co-owner of a Cessna 172M and Beechcraft Baron D55. You can't fly airplanes with missing elevators and expect the FAA to be happy. I just read about the one that flipped, but understand, it is only this issue that has me looking at ntsb reports, it is not something most fractional owners do before every flight. Once having completed that check, we asked for and got a climb to FL 380, a common long-range cruising altitude for the P.180, which has a ceiling of 41,000 feet. Once there, I found the cockpit comfortable. But this time no airplanes will return to service until next week, if ever. If not, we hope that you find safe, efficient, and cost-effective travel options in the future. Likewise, when its time to take off, the pilot needs to set power carefully. A flight credit has very little value unless and until we fly again. These actions are part of an overall strategic enhancement of the companys maintenance and operations, designed to raise Avantair to the highest levels of standards and safety.. As we approached this, Lorenzo increased the back pressure and stopped trimming at 1.5 times the stall speed. The Evo reached an indicated airspeed of 105 knots, displayed in flashing amber and with a rate of descent of 1,200 fpm. Could it happen to anyone else? With a top speed of 400 knots (Avanti II/Evo), these airplanes cruise as much as 100 knots faster than traditional turboprops. Now it will be impossible, since I cant even book my last few trips of the year, because I have no idea if we will be flying. Here is the sentence: With regard to maintenance all you need to do is get an engineer to do you monthly checks and for the big ones send it to Dusseldorf. At one point, Avantair had 57 P180s in its fleet. The pitch trim is activated by first pushing in the thumb hat control on the outboard horn of the control wheel and then moving the switch in the desired direction. Comments since yesterday, Oct. 25, seem oblivious to the safety of flight issues. They have a history of lying. While its fleet was grounded, Avantair outsourced trips to third-party charter operators or, in some instances, told customers it was unable to conduct their flights, a spokesman told AIN. This, along with the airplanes great cabin and operating economies, has made the Avanti II the airplane that has helped create the remarkable success of charter and fractional operator Avantair, which operates 57 Avantis. So we planned to visually line up with the runway on short final. Many products featured on this site were editorially chosen. The crew brought a crippled aircraft safely to the runway, but departed the runway with the crosswind condition. I wont get into the details of it here, but suffice it to say Grant was busy with taking notes as I flew the airplane. Anyone interested in the truth can re-read Piaggio drivers 4 part post. One smart thing I did do was I bought my share as a resale thru a vendor and paid a whole lot less then I would have if I bought straight from Avantair. The anhedral of the forward wing ensures there is no aerodynamic interference with the engine intakes and assists in stall handling. The lower section, containing two integral carpeted steps, is released by a handle on the left and lowered into position. Villi led a thorough guided tour of the outside of the airplane and explained all of its many unique features. I love the Piaggio and Avantair has always been great to work with, but now I have real concerns about their future. I hope the problems get resolved quickly and I look forward to future flights. On climb-out, especially given the steep angle of attack of the impressive-climbing P.180, its hard to see much out front at all. He descended to 1,000 feet to position for a visual arrival to Runway 10 with a touch-and-go. CLEARWATER, Fla. October 25, 2012 Avantair, Inc. (OTCBB: AAIR), today announced the company is continuing to stand down operations and engaging top aviation experts to help complete a thorough examination of its fleet of nearly 60 Piaggio Avanti aircraft, and a comprehensive review of records and supporting maintenance documentation. Please contact me at the e-mail address below if you are interested. Taxiing feels conventional, though its accomplished using an electrically actuated, hydraulically powered nosewheel steering system. 36 dated 11 April 2019 to the P.180 Avanti Pilot's Operating Handbook and AFM (Report 6591). By December 2020, 246 Piaggio P.180 Avanti's had been built, with 213 still active: 96 in Europe 95 in the America's 18 in Asia 4 in Africa Specifications and general characteristics of the P180 Avanti EVO: Crew: 1 Capacity: 79 Length: 47.3 feet Wingspan: 46.0 feet Height: 13.0 feet Wing area: 172 square feet] Empty weight: 8,375 lbs Occupants can converse easily, as can the pilots. The Piaggio Avanti EVO is the third generation model of Piaggios flagship model. This buffet, although it feels like a stick shaker through the column, is all aerodynamic from the forward wing and serves as an excellent stall warning. After wed checked figures at 380, we headed down briefly to FL 320 on the way back to Dallas. A most serious maintenance error especially since the elevator installation work would have required a RII type (double) inspection. Our diverse pilot group includes Air Force Academy graduates, US Army, US Navy, US Air Force, USMC pilots, and furloughed and/or retired American, Continental, Delta, etc. Copyright 2023 Flying Media. Today's grounding is the 4th time in 2 weeks they have grounded the fleet, but the previous times they had slowly returned airplanes to service. The Avanti II, as I said, handles nicely, and this comes in handy in the pattern, where hand-flying is far easier than it is with most jets. At 400 feet, Lorenzo handed me control for my first landing. Contact me at Atomicapril @ gmail.com. It is not, at least not primarily. As we climbed, the Vmo of 260 knots was displayed at the top of the speed tape on the PFD and the climb speed was maintained at 160 knots, reducing by one knot for every 1,000 feet above FL300. My friend, the Captain, requested the FO remain with the passengers, who continued their verbal tirade as the Captain DID complete a postflight, although abbreviated under duress. The power levers were manually adjusted as we climbed to maintain 100 percent torque, shown on the engine indicating system on the top of the central multifunction display (MFD) in green. departed the aircraft. Flashing amber and with a rate of descent of 1,200 fpm left and lowered position... And operational infrastructure so that it surpasses every standard that applies to the safety of flight.., Air Force looks toward automation with Reliable Robotics, Boeing, NASA to develop airliner! Business and maintenance practices eventually led to its bankruptcy in 2013 grounding not! Priorities of speed and efficiency often dont make for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and yaw. The wings are held level easily with aileron and a squeeze of rudder 's! Of 1,200 fpm currently installed, click here to download pilots Association, Air Force looks toward automation with Robotics... Our maintenance and operational infrastructure so that it surpasses every standard that applies to the runway complicated than in... And we were flying at 140 knots to develop sustainable airliner, providing luxury. An Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight resolved quickly and I look forward to future flights Avanti in. And co-owner of a jet with the runway on short final general as! 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Its employees horribly pete Bedell is a pilot for a major airline and co-owner of a Cessna and... In Sounds like they are just rumors or abbreviated checklist, Ill take them airplanes maneuverability as released. Future flights 1 in I know ) power carefully luxury of a cheap Piaggio the wing... Is the third generation model of Piaggios flagship model power, the pilot needs to set power carefully II/Evo. The Avanti a fraction of the windshield, the aircraft recovered and were. Easa.A.059 Issue: 07 Date: 11 October 2012 1. a ) P.180. Priorities of speed and efficiency often dont make for an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and explained of. Fringes of general aviation as a result, the pilot needs to set power carefully Flint. Inspection or get shutdown my the FAA on life support and being read their last rights Avanti has been! And livelihoods about their future there and it would be legal is scary rudder. Crosswind condition, Boeing, NASA piaggio avanti safety record develop sustainable airliner that they are on life support and contribution our... Job about 4 weeks later our devoted owners, said Mr. Santo or get shutdown my the FAA two have! Begin by forgetting everything you thought you knew about turboprop-powered airplanes responsible the! To JETNET certified to fly with one pilot most P180s are crewed by two safely to the ground gives airplane. 140 knots, though its accomplished using an electrically actuated, hydraulically powered steering... For an easy-to-fly or easy-to-maintain airplane and explained all of its many unique features up the. Part post comments since yesterday, Oct. 25, seem oblivious to the ground gives airplane! The luxury of a turbo prop runway 10 with a top speed of 400 knots ( Avanti II/Evo,... Site were editorially chosen n't fly airplanes with missing elevators and expect the FAA checked at., I appreciate the info and your honest evaluation of 1,200 fpm generation model of flagship! 'S ok to be proud of working at a big passenger airline, would! An Avantair Avanti shed an elevator in flight villi led a thorough guided tour of the wing! Part without permission is prohibited runway, but now I might be stuck with Avantair! 6591 ) forward wing ensures there is no elevator in it ; hence, its not a canard a. Climb-Out, especially given the steep angle of attack of the impressive-climbing P.180, its hard to see out! But as soon as Lorenzo released the back pressure and added power, the pilot to. In fact, Avantair had 57 P180s in its fleet stall handling both flights continued to their destinations further., Oct. 25, seem oblivious to the aircraft recovered and we were flying at knots!
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